I'd like to hear all about Crossfire...

[Rampage]

from beginning to end.. all the juicy details, issues and nice parts as well I guess.
It looks and sounds like a pile to me. Just would like to know more.

[a12ctic]

no first hand experience with it, but from what ive heard,

~you need a master card which usualy costs an extra 100-200 dollars more than the regular version for topend cards
~you have to wait for ati to make profiles which can take them weeks for new release games
~performance with a single 1900xtx beats a 7900gtx 70% of the time, performance with cf 1900xtx loses 95% of the time to 7900GTX sli
~the drivers are buggy and dont work right

[Darth Shaidar]

Why, I just so happen to have a Crossfire rig.

Right now, it sucks ass. Don't get me wrong. When games work, they work wonderfully and look absolutely amazing. The problem is that a lot of games either don't work with CF, or the default profile actually slows the game down. Some games still have performance issues with CF, especially OGL titles like Doom 3. Hell, I even get slowdowns in Painkiller, a DX 8 title.

On top of all that, the software support is absolutely attrocious. I can't even use a driver after Catalyst 6.3 (March '06 driver) due to incompatibilties with games, and the infamous Dell LCD bug (which also affects my Samsung 214t, btw). CCC is a freaking joke. Bloated as hell (takes forever to load Windows) and a clunky non-intuitive interface. Also, Catalyst drivers have had a flickering issue with non-DVI LCDs for ages now (flickers during any sort of mode change, during initialization on Windows startup).

So a lot of negatives as you can see, and very few positives. SLI is simply more mature right now, and faster to boot. Nothing beats a single X1900 for high-end gaming value in my book though. $350 for one of the fastest video cards on the planet that doesn't suffer from *any* of the aforementioned issues (aside from CCC issues) is well worth it.

[Rampage]

Holy ****!

That sounds horrid. You should get a SLI setup. But then I wouldnt be able to quiz you on Xfire and get the truth.
Theres a lot of guys out there either covering for ATI, or unwilling to share the ugly details out of pride.

I had SLI on launch (dual 6800GTs) and I can tell you that I had it a week after the first SLI boards were out (Asus A8N SLI Deluxe) and it worked great. In almost every game out as well. I was very happy with it. The only issue I had was a vsync issue that was fixed eventually. When I emailed HardOCP about the issue they said they never did encounter the issue. So maybe it was just me.

SLI also didnt support widescreen resolutions first either, but this was quite some time ago and I was one of the first adopters of the 2005FPW display. When I bought it, the 2405 wasnt even rumored to come out yet. I didnt hold that against Nvidia, as these things are a unique situation as sometimes I go a little TOO bleeding edge. Nvidia did their job very well considering how early I got it.

I'm not a believer in ATI software support (drivers or apps), nor a fan of their longterm legacy support in general. So I believe all this stuff you guys are telling me. I've experienced nearly the same on the ATI products I kept attempting to buy and use over the years.
If theres a flaw in a product, I tend to find it.. and I've found far more in ATI products than Nvidia.

[Darth Shaidar]

I have to admit that my experiences with both companies have been lack-luster. I am seriously contemplating a switch to Quad SLI right now, but the system I'm going to build (Dual Xeon Core 2 Duos) and the lack of dual socket Xeon SLI-compatible mobos may make that all-but impossible. I may have to stick with Crossfire for the time being. I just hope G80 and/or R600 come out before I'm ready to buy. I'd feel a bit jaded if I bought Quad SLI 7950GX2s only to have G80 come out a few weeks later and blow it out of the water in terms of performance, features, and image quality (which I expect it to do).

[Rollo]

Darth...Darth... give in to your anger........strike down your Crossfire and take your place at my side........


-The Emperor

[Rollo]

BTW-
I'd actually be surprised if G80 "blew quad out of the water" on performance.

No clue as to whether AA/AF have changed, I know HDR+AA will be in it.

I wouldn't be surprised if the rigs (G80 SLI and Quad SLI) ended up similar in performance with G80s having the HDR+AA advantage.

[Rampage]

I'm not expecting major DX9 performance increases with G80, basically checkbox DX10 support. Just as ATI will have.
A few new AA/AF modes, some rubbage about high definition gaming blah blah blah.. you have yourself a G80 or R600. Lets face it.

I predict "X1800" style products on both sides. Nice features, to much to early, too little power to use them. Also loud and hot ta boot with high power drain (dedicated bricks or 5 1/4 PSUs?). Whats the point?

Today is the time to get setup for a while. GX2 or two of them makes a lot of sense to me. Might do that myself, I dont fear G80. I've been thru the upgrade cycle that Im simply not dazzled as I have been in the past with new products. And I'm not a sucker for that stupid "wait for x-hardware" game everyone trys to "win".

The only way to WIN is to buy hardware when games are out that can utilize it, and you have games that you really enjoy. For example, if you love Unreal, it IS worth waiting for UT07 THEN buying a card.
I like CSS among some turnbased strategy games so I'm set.

I'd sell that xfire setup and just rid yourself of all that is unclean.. you cant go wrong with Quad. Its far to fast to end up being trumped so bad in 1 product cycle to worry about.

Dont expect quad to live on either. The G71 is a VERY efficient, cool running design with tremendous power considering. I dont see that kind of phenomenal product being replicated again to soon.
ATI cant do it, hence the loud cooling and dual slot on both the XT/XTX. Thats what they had to do to match performance (of which they had no choice)...

[Darth Shaidar]

BTW-
I'd actually be surprised if G80 "blew quad out of the water" on performance.

No clue as to whether AA/AF have changed, I know HDR+AA will be in it.

I wouldn't be surprised if the rigs (G80 SLI and Quad SLI) ended up similar in performance with G80s having the HDR+AA advantage.

By "blow Quad SLI out of the water" I was referring to G80 Quad SLI vs. G70/G71 Quad SLI. Also, I expect NV to up their dynamic branching performance significantly compared to G70/G71 so that should help future titles quite a bit. Add in numerous other architectural enhancements and I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see 2x G80s in SLI beat Quad SLI G71s.

Time will tell.

[Darth Shaidar]

Dont expect quad to live on either. The G71 is a VERY efficient, cool running design with tremendous power considering. I dont see that kind of phenomenal product being replicated again to soon.
ATI cant do it, hence the loud cooling and dual slot on both the XT/XTX. Thats what they had to do to match performance (of which they had no choice)...

G80 will be a beast, that's for sure. Don't be surprised if power consumption doesn't increase drastically over G71 though.

As for ATI's ability to deliver a dual-GPU card, RV560/RV570 "Gemini" boards are on the way (rumored to be out next month, no less) so it certainly can be done. I'm actually looking forward to the upcoming Gemini products, but since they're not uber high-end I don't think I'll go that route, unless of course Crossfire is the only graphical choice available to me when I get a dual socket Xeon motherboard.

[metroidfox]

SLi may have matured more than Crossfire, but Quad SLi is likely a different issue. Stick with what you have for a bit longer.

[Darth Shaidar]

Late update: CF runs fantastic with the latest Cats (6.7). No more Cat-related gaming issues, and performance is astounding.

[Rampage]

G80 will be a beast, that's for sure. Don't be surprised if power consumption doesn't increase drastically over G71 though.

As for ATI's ability to deliver a dual-GPU card, RV560/RV570 "Gemini" boards are on the way (rumored to be out next month, no less) so it certainly can be done. I'm actually looking forward to the upcoming Gemini products, but since they're not uber high-end I don't think I'll go that route, unless of course Crossfire is the only graphical choice available to me when I get a dual socket Xeon motherboard.

Yes, it is!!!!!!